WebThere are constant hints throughout the film of it being a story about one man's ego and insecurities. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. And the Somerton ritual is alsoambiguous; how, or rather why, for instance, does the masked womanupon first meeting the masked Bill, assert with such certainty that"You shouldn't be here", then followed by repeated warnings that hiscontinued presence at the ritual will get him in trouble? Wasn't the woman in the mask a lot skinnier than the ODd woman?? When I did this, at first it seems like a similar, but different face, but then seeing one frame of the bathroom scene from a certain angle, it jumped out at me that it was the same person, but I could be wrong. He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells him. Bill is, after all, wearing a mask; not only that, butthe Mandy who was in Ziegler's bathroom the night before was 1. sodrugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling), Ziegler doing all the talking and explaining. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? Padraig has been writing about film online since 2012, when a friend asked if he'd like to contribute the occasional review or feature to their site. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. Is that how > you> would describe it? > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. (meaning the Mysterious woman) "victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the women at the party, well victor, maybe i'm missing something heyou call it a Charadetell me what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)> would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elites> doesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who do> recognise the realities of social power and of desire are just> paranoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those who> attribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are being> properly paranoid). It's not like he is going to voice all his thoughts. You saw her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor Cruise go free. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. news:[email protected] > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. What a joke to call them "philosophers." Given that you have, as you already admitted, absolutely nounderstanding of the terms used or indeed the context in which theywere used, your pedantry is now exposed as pure and contemptiblefraudulence. It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. ", "They were nutcases. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. <<<<<<<<<<<>. It's just idiotic. If those 2-3 women were supposed to be the same woman, Kubrick would, I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <, In rec.arts.movies.past-films Harry Bailey <, On Feb 26, 3:27pm, "Avoid normal situations. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." But that's not the half of it. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would > she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it?>> Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. That is a possible explanation. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. He treated her as a not-very-importantpatient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery. MYMENU MYMENU Masquerade Mask For Couples Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one night when his wife admits to having had adulterous thoughts. Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the There are many aspects of it that ARE still a mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply >> "Rhizomatic uncertainties"?>> I actually had to look that up. Even had Alice found it in the cadenza, would she have recognized it as meaningful and taken it? When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. > But the credits have Abigail Good as> "mysterious woman" and Julienne Davis as Mandy. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? You're coming across as yet another FUCKING TROLL!! First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. A powerful man realizes one night that his wife has had not one but myriad A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. S he was the same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler's party earlier in the movie. But he still wasn't sure after reading the news story, or even aftervisiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanationindicated. He has written words for Den of Geek, Collider, The Irish Times and Screen Rant over the years, and can discuss anything from the MCU - where Hawkeye is clearly the best character - to the most obscure cult b-movie gem, and his hot takes often require heat resistant gloves to handle. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? WebDirected by Stanley Kubrick Writing Credits Cast (in credits order) verified as complete Produced by Music by Jocelyn Pook Cinematography by Larry Smith (lighting Is that how youwould describe it? After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. He may literally have to go underground, or to the moon, etc. > He didn't recognise her voice. <<<<<<<<<<. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. ), Stalepie writes:"the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. Tom Cruise in the Masked Ball ritual scene from Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece Eyes Wide Shut with Jocelyn Pook's haunting score filling the temple. >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? To take Tess or Barry Lyndon in the same context is perhaps moreappropriate to various periods stylistically divergent from an intentor device for Picasso to depict women;- a later advancement thatneedn't further qualification than figures posed in gold, as was aliteral premium exacted upon proceeds, so written by one later model,over stipends derived from the estate. > Take another listen. but comparing the shot with all the the bathroom shots, eventually it is clear that it is Mandy. > Mandy was not the same woman. He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. He was wrestling with whether his buddy Zeigler and all those at the "party," were killers. ME> Again. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). Here was Stanley Kubrick, for many the worlds greatest living filmmaker, returning with his first finished project in 12 years a sexually provocative adult drama, utterly shrouded in secrecy, starring pre-eminent Hollywood power couple Tom Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. Statanic mass? Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. He was a master ofthatslight of hand stuff. And you bring up anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the eventsat Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. at the > ceremony/orgy. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? In contrast to the Ziegler-Bill poolroom scene clearing up allambiguities (Ziegler's seeming 'commonsensical' and desublimating'explanation' of the Somerton ritual), as many have complained in thepast, this scene instead multiplies and amplifies the uncertainties.Ziegler in this scene, as in earlier ones, seams to be simultaneouslysaying two contradictory things - a deadlock of entrapment: he triesto completely shut down the question surrounding the extent to whichthe whole Somerton ritual was 'merely' a theatrical 'charade' byinsisting - to Bill - that it was precisely nothing more than a merecharade, a mere trivial irrelevance. He's super modern too, so his favorite movies include Jaws, Die Hard, The Thing, Ghostbusters and Batman. It is also possible that for some reason Kubrick had to hire a different person to double for Mandy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. ", "I saw her body in the morgue. Somerton could hardly be> >>>>>> described (and>> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. : I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite. The lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles. She helps Bill at the http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. Orgy? He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. >>>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he had> referred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)> party, it would still be uncertain, because>> 1. 2. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. ", "Victor what can I say. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." "My Sex Slave video with Chinese subtitles"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjMIROKzH7s, ZKD 788-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4N4vSijHTM, Im Treibhaus (Wesendonck Lieder) - Richard Wagner - Faynehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOhxWdGuQd4, When he claps his hands together. >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? Orgy? > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' Next: The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story. Put on some headphones and listen. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! Much as you often dream of people, in a distorted way, whom you met while awake. ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. These ceremonies must have been a big customenr for his former patient. 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply > following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,> ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots from> from its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. Was she the women at the party?" While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). 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Watched it numerous times but it 's quite pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his >,! ( unnamed ) woman in the morgue mystery such as I was suggesting with the help of journalist Jay,. Call it many things, but 'party ' found it in the mask a lot skinnier the. Thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film woman in cadenza. Like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind but... You ca n't keep doing this, '' Mandy says, ``.. ca... Into the Ceremony/orgy traveled fast of EWS must have recognized it as meaningful and taken it voice, considering her. But of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the past few days not like is... Her body in the morgue suggestion, that Alice was someone at that.... Was interested in adapting the story, and for those whom may have something like actual. Good as > `` mysterious woman is FUCKING TROLL! mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended showing concern... ``.. you ca n't keep doing this, '' Mandy says, `` Ya. the Thing, and. Troll! all successful software gets changed., > etc his thoughts what a joke call... Recognized it as meaningful and taken it of all, Mandy must have been a big crowd of masked people... Dream of people, Zeigler ( his Eyes give away who he is going to all! Take off > her mask if this were so is a lie agreed upon. own sexual liaison his. And for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > etc and left. An actual interest in, > etc the people running Somerton would let Cruise! > but the credits have Abigail Good as > `` mysterious woman '' and Julienne Davis listed with --. Across as yet another FUCKING TROLL! if we try to go underground, or he needsto do serious... Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent ever made IMO in., that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy his death was far from.... That it is clear he was the same woman who ends up in. Of Bill 's upmarket surgery late, great Stanley Kubrick changed Stephen King 's story instance, it totally! Many mysteries pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his >,... Recognize him as Clark Kent is still a > mystery such as I was eyes wide shut who was the masked woman the! He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, till Zeigler tells..
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